Re Seeing Is Believing-Apr, 26/’98

I believe Army Security Agency. There is a whole history to army intelligence that is not well known.

One group (using different RV methods than the Ft. Meade unit) was folded into Special Forces Intelligence. That’s where Glenn did his thing.

I believe Army Security Agency. There is a whole history to army intelligence that is not well known. One group (using different RV methods than the Ft. Meade unit) was folded into Special Forces Intelligence. That’s where Glenn did his thing.

Are you aware of anyone having used FOIA to get info on this? Would it not be a newsworthy item?

Are you aware of anyone having used FOIA to get info on this? Would it not be a newsworthy item?

Using the Freedom of Information Act would not get you anywhere on this one. Anything interesting has no doubt been stamped "exempt from general declassification," and that’s that. You and I will never see it.

When we started training with Glenn Wheaton none of us were too concerned with his pedigree as a remote viewer. I had attended Farsight, and had met Ed Dames. I was very interested in remote viewing. Someone told me there was a former military viewer in the islands. I contacted Glenn.

Those of us who formed HRVG simply went to a free lecture and heard Glenn speak for an hour or so. He showed his military ID, but never brought out any of his remote viewing work. Had we been paying $4,500 a week for training, probably we would have asked more questions. But it was (and is always) FREE, and you can’t spend more than 5 minutes with Glenn without knowning he is the real deal.

So Glenn did not demonstrate his skill to us. He didn’t tell us stories about the good old days. He didn’t talk about what Pat Price did way back when, or what Ingo said about this or that.

Glenn just taught us how to remote view. "On a clean sheet of paper, in the upper lefthand corner, write the word IDEOGRAM. Sliding across to the right…."

Glenn gave us the protocols. He didn’t remote view for us. He didn’t tell us the history of remote viewing in all it’s permutations.

I don’t think we’ll ever know the full history of remote viewing. We at HRVG just wanted to learn to remote view.

We’re doing that.

The question shouldn’t be "can we get the full story from the military about all the remote viewing programs?" The question should be: "Who is posting sessions in public that demonstrate remote viewing?"

This is the place.

> The question shouldn’t be "can we get the full story from the military about all the remote viewing programs?" The question should be: "Who is posting sessions in public that demonstrate remote viewing?"

Why is the "full story" question irrelevant?

Ken

AKA Willowing

Hi Willowing!

The "full story" is only relevant from a historical perspective and historical interest, but it doesn’t have any relevance to performance and the actual process of remote viewing. You can talk all you want about who was the first remote viewing unit and the protocols they used but the proof of the relevancy of the process is in the performance of the methodologies. It is difficult to find any evidence of consistantly good performance of other RV methods elsewhere.

As with any product or process, the first method rarely gives you the best results. After years of testing and experimentation, new inovations are applied to modifyy and improve the efficacy of the method. In remote viewing, the performance, the product of the process is that which legitimizes and proves the relevance and efficacy of the process. Prove it in reality! Show us the results of the process! It is difficult to find this proof elsewhere…consistantly demonstrating excellent results when utilizing the other rv methods.

Our aim here at HRVG is to publish consistantly good work…we work the protocols and the protocols work…

Erminmink is just about to be published. No one can refute the efficacy of HRVG’s methods. It doesn’t matter whether anyone has ever heard of Glenn Wheaton or the TFD remote viewing unit or their protocols historically. What is important is the proof that we demonstrate here over and over again of its value as a remote viewing method.

Aloha, Valtra aka Mana

Hi Ken,

Valtra answered this very well, so I’ll only add a little bit.

We’ve had literally hundreds of hours of instruction from Glenn and we have not learned everything he knows about remote viewing. We still have to get into trig and tackle Annex D for determining exact dates. We have about 9 more movement orders to learn. And we have only probed the right side of NIMO (Neuro Interogation Mask Overlay.) There’s stuff he’s not going to tell us because he could go to prison. (Read the nondisclosure agreement in the library section) That’s fine with us.

I read the Stargate list frequently. They argue endlessly about the definition of the remote viewing. There is often discussion about what Hal Putoff thought about what Igno Swan said about what Pat Price did. But is there any evidence any of them are doing any remote viewing NOW? Do they have any students who can post sessions that demonstrate remote viewing ability?

We feel its about the SKILL, not the definition or the history.

Good Morning Willowing,

Welcome to the BB again :)

Banshee

I believe Army Security Agency. There is a whole history to army intelligence that is not well known. One group (using different RV methods than the Ft. Meade unit) was folded into Special Forces Intelligence. That’s where Glenn did his thing. Thanks for the reply–BTW, I enjoyed that post–would make a great title for your first book. Take Care, Ed

Ed,

I have seen a lot more since I made that original post.
I really have had some stunning visual moments. They are fleeting however. I’m still working on synching up with the signal line and holding it.

Dick

Ed, I have seen a lot more since I made that original post. I really have had some stunning visual moments. They are fleeting however. I’m still working on synching up with the signal line and holding it.

Dick Dick, I’m sure you will continue to astound yourself as your skills improve. HRVG’s work is obviously outstanding and I hope that I will have the opportunity to participate in the next OT class. Ed

Aloha Dick,

When I decided to train others in the Remote Viewing skills that I had acquired while in SOF Intel I knew it would not be an easy task. I sat at the Empress restaurant in Chinatown with Phillip Lau and discussed his support to the group we would form. He was providing classroom space and was a major proponent behind the Guild in the early days.

Phillip asked if I would Remote View a target that was of interest to him, I said that I would. I grabbed a napkin and drew the target in perhaps a little over a minute. It was his target and it was correct. I took the opportunity to tell him that what I had just done was not Remote Viewing but its’ sexy sister Tagging. Phillip wanted to see the skill displayed and I complied because it got us free training facilities and began a friendship that lasts to this day. Not that Phillip wouldn’t have given us the support we needed, but he earnestly wanted to see RV work.

As you know there is an endless line of people who would want to see the skill demonstrated, on demand, on the spot. My stock reply to the normal prove it to me "remote View my last name" (that’s my favorite :) is to look sternly and reply, "will you throw me a fish if I get it?" NEVER REMOTE VIEW TO PROVE REMOTE VIEWING TO SOMEONE! You will get your feelings hurt.

I Posted the prediction sked as an example of my own skill because it had value as to RV credibility not Glenn Wheaton credibility. The Guild itself functions because each of you has proven it to yourself. By you own hand you have demonstrated the skill. You believe and function because you have had training. You have an audit trail of success and failure along two years of effort. The quality of your work is what takes the majority of the bandwidth on this site, not rhetoric, hype, not endless words. You have had many supporters and many detractors, but it seems that you have taken the day.

The Guild members built what is here. It says far more than a single demonstration of the skill. The publication of the work of many viewers over a period of two years carves the truth in granite. It cannot be disputed. The Case for Remote Viewing is laid out on this site as it is on no other. I spend a considerable amount of time on the net checking on the progress of other groups and schools. Most are marketing themselves, offering instruction or services. That is fine in a free society but it still keeps the general public in the dark as to what the RV Beast looks like.

HRVG is an ORG because we can show you the beast. Not just an example or the lucky hit. We show you the application of the skill again and again and again. We put RV into a realm of applied skill. The Kapitan Man and the Jigg work puts analysis out for viewing and review. What can be said about a target can be audit trailed back to its’ origin in each session. The soon to be published Erminmink will show why we are the crew to catch in this game.

My origins in ASA/SOF Intel are mine. It was not my charm and salesmanship that made the viewers in the Guild, it was a good protocols/methods and dedicated student work period. If any of you think I did it all without permission, think again.

I have said it before and I will say it again, organize, train, and do something good with RV. TDS is a prime example of a low signature operation working for the benefit of others beyond themselves. Prudence did the work, organized the viewers and put them into service to make a contribution.

I have also said the best minds have yet to embrace Remote Viewing and it is true. Someone out there will build a better RV mousetrap; the question is will he/she ever get a chance in the shark-infested waters of today’s RV community?

Aloha Glenn

Ken,

I’m in agreement with you. It is a relevant question. Any question made in a sincere and polite manner is a relevant question.

I think the challenge is to find out more via the FOIA.

Personally, I side with Dick in that you probably won’t find much.

Regards,

John from Taegu

>

Why is the "full story" question irrelevant?

Ken AKA Willowing

Hi John and Ken…

I hope you don’t think we found the question impolite or insincere. We certainly didn’t. And I hope our answers haven’t been impolite.

Hell, I would LOVE to hear the real history of remote viewing. Yes, these things are relevant and interesting.

We may be a bit defensive because some in the RV community have tried to discount Glenn, us, our method of RV and everything else about us because they hadn’t heard of Glenn and his program.

You’re all welcome to post here and ask questions. When the new project goes up we’re hoping there will be questions and comments about it.

This has been an interesting thread, so thanks for generating it.

Aloha
Dick

I’ve read everything in this thread before responding again. And I appreciate everything that has been said. I can accept that as far as history goes, there is a shroud of secrecy (nondisclosure) for whatever reason. My question has nothing to do with trying to discount Glenn or any remote viewer.

When I was studying music, we strove to be the best composers, singers, conductors we could be from some of the best musicians in the world. But a big part of that process was the history of our instructors (who did they learn from, etc.) and of music as well. I just don’t see how we could have excelled just by relying on the output of our present teachers — either what they got us to do or told us what to do.

So I guess I’d rather hear someone say that the history is classified when a history question is asked rather than get a "look at the results" which makes me feel frustrated because it’s a non sequetor.

I know it’s my immature child inside that gets mad when I’m told I can’t see something that obviously the "grownups" can see.

Ken

AKA Willowing

Hi John and Ken… I hope you don’t think we found the question impolite or insincere. We certainly didn’t. And I hope our answers haven’t been impolite.

Hell, I would LOVE to hear the real history of remote viewing. Yes, these things are relevant and interesting.

We may be a bit defensive because some in the RV community have tried to discount Glenn, us, our method of RV and everything else about us because they hadn’t heard of Glenn and his program.

You’re all welcome to post here and ask questions. When the new project goes up we’re hoping there will be questions and comments about it.

This has been an interesting thread, so thanks for generating it. Aloha Dick

Dick,

No problem. I guess Ken said it best with his post about wanting to know everything he could about the various musicians he studied.

Looking forward to the recently completed HRVG project being posted.

Regards,

John

PS Are you planning on coming to Korea in the near future?

Hi John and Ken… I hope you don’t think we found the question impolite or insincere. We certainly didn’t. And I hope our answers haven’t been impolite.

Hell, I would LOVE to hear the real history of remote viewing. Yes, these things are relevant and interesting.

We may be a bit defensive because some in the RV community have tried to discount Glenn, us, our method of RV and everything else about us because they hadn’t heard of Glenn and his program.

You’re all welcome to post here and ask questions. When the new project goes up we’re hoping there will be questions and comments about it.

This has been an interesting thread, so thanks for generating it. Aloha Dick