the many types of Consciousness

Aloha Pame,

What specifically in the Monday class lecture did you feel needed more discussion? Our understanding of consciousness is limited. Science neither can tell you what it is or where it resides. It is amazing that so little funding goes into cognitive studies when one of the greatest questions of our times remains unanswered. Let me say this one more time so that we are clear and there can be no misunderstanding, "SCIENCE DOES NOT KNOW".

La Propagation èlègante

Is RV an Event of Field Propagation?

That does not mean that there are not many guesses about what consciousness is, and even some are made by educated people. Academics as well as yourself are all in the same boat if an answer had to be had at this very moment. Let me quote myself a bit on this Issue.

It was just about an hour before noon when the Japanese Submarine I-26 fired 3 torpedoes at the American warship San Francisco. None of the torpedoes struck the San Francisco but a single torpedo slipped beyond and struck the USS Juneau. In an instant 700 men were cast to fate’s hand. Almost 8,000 miles away in a small town of middle America a mother’s heart froze as she realized that something was wrong, a feeling that would haunt her for the days to come. Despite the thousands of miles between them and the lack of any news about them, she knew that her 5 sons were in peril. In the South Pacific off the island of Guadalcanal, Albert, Francis, George, and Madison had just been killed. The last remaining son, Joseph Sullivan, adrift on debris after the Juneau went down, would die 6 days later in a personal battle with three sharks that would finally best him in the sea.

Almost 70 years later a young scientist in a laboratory sends two identical photons racing away from each other. The photons fly true. They follow the rules. That is until the scientist introduces a change into one of the photons and is amazed to see the change manifest in the other photon. Quantum non-locality just breeched the signal to noise ratio and like a large donkey in a room full of scientists, it began to bray.

In another part of the world a soldier slips silently into a tunnel in a dense jungle in Southeast Asia. Inside, other soldiers lounge about a small fire, while others sleep nearby. In the back of the tunnel are 3 men bound tightly. Two of the men seem to be French and the third is a German. They are journalists who got too close to the war, but they are not American POW’s. The soldier leaves the tunnel . . . by just simply not being there anymore.

These stories, like many others, give us clues about the nature of our being and our environment. It hints at the connectivity between us, and our world. It is a connectivity that is beyond our technology to isolate and identify. It is a connectivity that is accessed by our conscious or subconscious intent. It is a connectivity that calls to us again and again when danger is near or fate has severed connections dear to us. It has called some from beyond the grave, still others from a time of history. It is a connectivity of relativity in a spectrum that is like the propagated environment of the electromagnetic wave. But it is different. It is very different. It is like the electromagnetic spectrum was alive and this special connectivity was its consciousness. This may not be far from the truth because we have begun to reverse the event. We seek it out and learn to use its pathways. We have begun to communicate with it.

examen èloignè et la vague

We live in a universe where life itself is dependant on the qualities of the electromagnetic spectrum. It is the single most important factor in the ability of a life form to support consciousness. For the human, consciousness is by the grace of the Electromagnetic Wave.

Remote Viewing is perhaps the most elegant expression of human consciousness. Whether or not remote viewing is an event of a propagated field environment, I have no doubts as to the nature of what constitutes the RV Effect and where it occurs. It is an event of non-locality in a spectrum that behaves much like EMF theory outside space/time. Its only enemy is noise.

All remote viewing event data, manifests and is realized within the folds of the electromagnetic brainwaves of our consciousness. There is only evidence of its existence within the cognizance of the minds brainwave field. Despite the non-local nature of the data it arrives on the wave, albeit a quantum one.

There is no evidence to suggest or support that remote viewing is not an exotic propagation of consciousness. On the other hand, we cannot prove this premise. A wise remote viewer once said, “if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . . perhaps it is like a duck.”

Because remote viewing is not in the physical it presents a quandary for some to quantify. It brings new questions to the physics of consciousness. Can consciousness behave in a non-local modality?

We tend to explain remote viewing in a format that is laced with terminology borrowed from theories associated with electromagnetic wave propagation. We use these terms because in our frame of reference it is what remote viewing is the most like. It is a model of a non-local propagation-like event that exceeds our technology to identify. It seems to be demonstrative of access to a greater consciousness. It is the demonstration of the acquisition of information beyond the limits of the physical reality and in a manner that indicates non-locality.

The limitations of our own science are what bring about the clamor of dispute over what Remote Viewing is. It is hesitancy, or a faltering step towards credibility while we wait for science to catch up. We prefer to cling to the magic of what we think it is in lieu of accepting what the demonstrated performance indicates within the structure of science.

We exist in a Universe that seems to have a sort of order. We have defined some of that order into laws. In the history of our science we constantly redefine those laws to upgrade our idea of reality. We have concentrated our scientific understanding of the universe on the real and the physical.

Consciousness is real but nonphysical. We have a real problem defining the nonphysical. This is a definition problem of technology and not logic. Our inclination is to observe and replicate the science of it in the laboratory. The nature or laws of consciousness are perhaps the most unexamined in the sphere of human science. So we find ourselves able to replicate but not prove, explain but not quantify.

We think we know that the viewer without the aid of mass, space/time, individual elementary particles, gravity, obvious external electromagnetism, nuclear force or weak forces somehow manages to do something that defies the logic of the assembled laws of the physical. But is it beyond the logic of consciousness or the quantum?

il nous fait dieux

Some would attribute the viewer’s demonstrated performance to some magical accessing of some galactic akashic record or some deep blue expression of the God in us all. But this is more than likely not the case.

Still others postulate a hypothetical signal line. While the dogma stipulates a signal line, few of them believe in it enough to commit to embracing the idea of a spectrum of frequency usage in remote viewing.

As an RF Engineer I agree with the concept of the signal line. It would seem that it is the most likely scenario. I am biased because I know the value of frequency. I know frequency is the scale of our real measure. There are those that believe there is no lower measure of frequency than the hertz. In reality it is an arbitrary measurement we apply in labeling that portion of spectrum we can actually detect and identify. It is like believing there is nothing below the big 55 on your radio dial. This is flat earth mentality in a universe scaled by frequency.

Remote Viewing is more than likely exactly what it seems to be. Exactly what it seems to be the most like. What logic implies. It is the exchange of information across fields of overlapping consciousness.

It is less a phenomenon and more a communication skill. For humans at our stage of evolution it is an advanced communication skill. It is possibly the most advanced communication skill able to be demonstrated by the human, able to be replicated by other humans, and the first non-local demonstration of communication to get a foot in the door of the scientific community. The keyword here is communication because the human only really does one thing. It seems to really only serve a single purpose. The human communicates. No matter how far down the road you go and what you see or say or do you still only communicate. All thought, all actions, all sensory exchanges, and everything associated with being human is a form of, or a facilitation of, communication. It is what we do. It is all we do.

The question is what kind of communication event is remote viewing? We know that the effect is realized in the conscious mind. Consciousness is a propagated field activity of the brain under electromagnetic bio-chemical influence. Consciousness is active when there is more than life. Life or the state of living does not imply consciousness.

Would science attribute consciousness to a single living cell? Would we attribute consciousness to inert material such as rocks or the dark matter of space?

Consciousness grants me the “I am”. It is the unique cerebral cognizance of myself in a virtual crowd of conscious beings sharing a common medium of space in time. Awareness is the expression of our individual consciousness in an active state. We function within the limitations of what we perceive that state to be and embrace a behavior of mind. It is that behavior that drives a projection of mentality. We assess each other on the displayed state of that mentality. We actually judge the competence of a person by their display of mentality, never really understanding the consciousness that is driving it or the mind that is shaping it. Consciousness is born of brain and mind on a foundation of bio-tissue, electromagnetics, and chemicals and exists not in matter but in fields and effects.

Laissez votre conscient soyez votre guide

An anomaly of consciousness is intuition. Evidence of intuition is evidence of a pathway or connectivity to something beyond the direct consciousness. It is an event of non-local awareness. Non-locality becomes more of a factor when dealing with any remote viewing activity. It is behavior outside the conventional mentality. Remote viewing seems to bridge the gap between fields of consciousness separated by space and time.

The task is to identify the type of communication that remote viewing is. Remote viewing is an advanced communication skill in humans which has a point of origin for transmission and reception that is identifiable. It happens in the human conscious awareness. This is a very important clue about the real nature of remote viewing.

The reception or realization of the non-local data occurs in the consciousness of the viewer. The consciousness is a propagated field environment. We say that it is a propagated field environment because that is exactly what it is. Consciousness, despite its many other attributes, qualities, and behaviors is not a physical thing. It is micro clustering of electromagnetic fields in and around its power source, the live human brain.

Any event of non-locality occurring within the conscious awareness of a human is demonstrative of an exchange between like fields of consciousness. The real missing information is what is the spark that ignites the state of non-locality?

We seem to be able to forecast remote viewing event size in terms of time but cannot solve it for frequency. Research in the event size in regards to sidereal time and the geomagnetic index reveal the type and nature of an environment that affects remote viewing performance or event size. Instead of a propagation chart showing the most and least useable frequencies for a block of time, we can only forecast the most useable and least useable time for the acquisition of non-local data. It is still demonstrative of propagated environment that can be forecasted in a limited way.

One thing we must all remember is that we do not know the truth of it. At best we have an idea and have devised an arbitrary means to secure a result. It is much like the mouse in the maze that has learned the route to the cheese. While we may excel in the maze and get fat on the cheese we are no closer to knowing the purpose of the maze or the source of the cheese. For some that is enough.

l’èpilogue

As humans we function almost exclusively in the past. Before I can say it I must formulate it and put it into language. I must speak it. Before you can hear my words they must travel to you and be collected, processed and understood within the field of your consciousness and intellect. All the while time has been steadily streaming and somewhere along the way we realize that we are functioning just a wee bit behind the now of reality. We realize that we are designed this way. We batch process bandwidth strips of the near past as our realized present. Simple non-locality for us would be to even for a single moment, grasp the real present, the real now. A place most of us think we are at already . . . but won’t realize for a few seconds. la fin

Glenn

Wow Glen… that was fantastic!

Greetings Glenn;

You make a strong argument by the use of the incumbents of, educated people, Academics, and Science. While still you’re claiming; "SCIENCE DOES NOT KNOW".

And yet; –your quote; "It is a connectivity that is beyond our technology to isolate and identify." So I think as long as that is true, we might still have a fighting chance to claim we are free thinkers,… yet in the same sense that statement can prove how influenced we are at the base of everything we do or say.

Back to your first question; "What specifically in the Monday class lecture did you feel needed more discussion? Our understanding of consciousness is limited." Maybe part of my need for more discussion was… where it seamed there was no more room/ time for discussion after the lecture. As in the beginning you questioned us… and judged those answers, being somewhat critical or biased to some answers…

plato.stanford.edu/entries/consciousness/

I believe if you read the whole contents of this page you would agree, it is a well given and a well researched description of consciousness that would be considered most acceptable, To any science research…(and well inclusive of the same information the class input). But, as you have already pointed out, it still would lack a physical point to poke.

Analogy:

— In the Monadology (1720) he also offered his famous analogy of the mill to express his belief that consciousness could not arise from mere matter. He asked his reader to imagine someone walking through an expanded brain as one would walk through a mill and observing all its mechanical operations, which for Leibniz exhausted its physical nature. Nowhere, he asserts, would such an observer see any conscious thoughts.—

In trying to really understand something does belief have to be verified by Science in order for it to be real. Because, if Science could get its hands on controlling all forms of consciousness in a physical form, how soon would it be used in war. Maybe it already has been done?

You like examples ,,, try LSD, and all those other drugs that is already been tested to control and abuse the conscious minds for histories. But i stray for a moment…

We are, I think we were, looking for what propagates RV and how one communicates within a RV field. The concern of whether or not it is a conscious thought process. And why do we want to know what part of conscious thought, receives information, processes that information, records that information? Now if that was found where in the brain this happens…. Who would be the first to abuse it, and want to see if they could turn it off…?

Does Science have to matter, because Science only deals with Matter?

I thought your duck was still lacking the real duck quality… everything you quoted was – … But is that ducking an issue, or just trying to show how everything isn’t what it’s quacked up to be?

Please Note; I don’t want a heated debate here. That sounds soo sexual…

So maybe if you give your OK, everyone can be prepared with their own research, and more questions, and we can take it back to the class.
Thanks for your time,
Looking forward,
P.

Glenn:

Of course I was not at the class so I know nothing about what was discussed there. I don’t know if it had anything to do with my posting from Todd Murphy’s website. That was just a desire to share with anyone interested some interesting material that may well be related to RV. I wrote to Todd Murphy at the E-mail address on his site and he directed me to the artical of Dr.Persingers and its relationship to RV.

Science Does Not Know Consciousness is real but not physical Consciousness grants me the "I am." "These stories, like many others, give us clues about thr nature of our being…." Aloha Pame,

What specifically in the Monday class lecture did you feel needed more discussion? Our understanding of consciousness is limited. Science neither can tell you what it is or where it resides. It is amazing that so little funding goes into cognitive studies when one of the greatest questions of our times remains unanswered. Let me say this one more time so that we are clear and there can be no misunderstanding, "SCIENCE DOES NOT KNOW".

La Propagation èlègante Is RV an Event of Field Propagation?

That does not mean that there are not many guesses about what consciousness is, and even some are made by educated people. Academics as well as yourself are all in the same boat if an answer had to be had at this very moment. Let me quote myself a bit on this Issue.

It was just about an hour before noon when the Japanese Submarine I-26 fired 3 torpedoes at the American warship San Francisco. None of the torpedoes struck the San Francisco but a single torpedo slipped beyond and struck the USS Juneau. In an instant 700 men were cast to fate’s hand. Almost 8,000 miles away in a small town of middle America a mother’s heart froze as she realized that something was wrong, a feeling that would haunt her for the days to come. Despite the thousands of miles between them and the lack of any news about them, she knew that her 5 sons were in peril. In the South Pacific off the island of Guadalcanal, Albert, Francis, George, and Madison had just been killed. The last remaining son, Joseph Sullivan, adrift on debris after the Juneau went down, would die 6 days later in a personal battle with three sharks that would finally best him in the sea.

Almost 70 years later a young scientist in a laboratory sends two identical photons racing away from each other. The photons fly true. They follow the rules. That is until the scientist introduces a change into one of the photons and is amazed to see the change manifest in the other photon. Quantum non-locality just breeched the signal to noise ratio and like a large donkey in a room full of scientists, it began to bray.

In another part of the world a soldier slips silently into a tunnel in a dense jungle in Southeast Asia. Inside, other soldiers lounge about a small fire, while others sleep nearby. In the back of the tunnel are 3 men bound tightly. Two of the men seem to be French and the third is a German. They are journalists who got too close to the war, but they are not American POW’s. The soldier leaves the tunnel . . . by just simply not being there anymore.

These stories, like many others, give us clues about the nature of our being and our environment. It hints at the connectivity between us, and our world. It is a connectivity that is beyond our technology to isolate and identify. It is a connectivity that is accessed by our conscious or subconscious intent. It is a connectivity that calls to us again and again when danger is near or fate has severed connections dear to us. It has called some from beyond the grave, still others from a time of history. It is a connectivity of relativity in a spectrum that is like the propagated environment of the electromagnetic wave. But it is different. It is very different. It is like the electromagnetic spectrum was alive and this special connectivity was its consciousness. This may not be far from the truth because we have begun to reverse the event. We seek it out and learn to use its pathways. We have begun to communicate with it.

examen èloignè et la vague

We live in a universe where life itself is dependant on the qualities of the electromagnetic spectrum. It is the single most important factor in the ability of a life form to support consciousness. For the human, consciousness is by the grace of the Electromagnetic Wave.

Remote Viewing is perhaps the most elegant expression of human consciousness. Whether or not remote viewing is an event of a propagated field environment, I have no doubts as to the nature of what constitutes the RV Effect and where it occurs. It is an event of non-locality in a spectrum that behaves much like EMF theory outside space/time. Its only enemy is noise.

All remote viewing event data, manifests and is realized within the folds of the electromagnetic brainwaves of our consciousness. There is only evidence of its existence within the cognizance of the minds brainwave field. Despite the non-local nature of the data it arrives on the wave, albeit a quantum one.

There is no evidence to suggest or support that remote viewing is not an exotic propagation of consciousness. On the other hand, we cannot prove this premise. A wise remote viewer once said, “if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . . perhaps it is like a duck.”

Because remote viewing is not in the physical it presents a quandary for some to quantify. It brings new questions to the physics of consciousness. Can consciousness behave in a non-local modality?

We tend to explain remote viewing in a format that is laced with terminology borrowed from theories associated with electromagnetic wave propagation. We use these terms because in our frame of reference it is what remote viewing is the most like. It is a model of a non-local propagation-like event that exceeds our technology to identify. It seems to be demonstrative of access to a greater consciousness. It is the demonstration of the acquisition of information beyond the limits of the physical reality and in a manner that indicates non-locality.

The limitations of our own science are what bring about the clamor of dispute over what Remote Viewing is. It is hesitancy, or a faltering step towards credibility while we wait for science to catch up. We prefer to cling to the magic of what we think it is in lieu of accepting what the demonstrated performance indicates within the structure of science.

We exist in a Universe that seems to have a sort of order. We have defined some of that order into laws. In the history of our science we constantly redefine those laws to upgrade our idea of reality. We have concentrated our scientific understanding of the universe on the real and the physical.

Consciousness is real but nonphysical. We have a real problem defining the nonphysical. This is a definition problem of technology and not logic. Our inclination is to observe and replicate the science of it in the laboratory. The nature or laws of consciousness are perhaps the most unexamined in the sphere of human science. So we find ourselves able to replicate but not prove, explain but not quantify.

We think we know that the viewer without the aid of mass, space/time, individual elementary particles, gravity, obvious external electromagnetism, nuclear force or weak forces somehow manages to do something that defies the logic of the assembled laws of the physical. But is it beyond the logic of consciousness or the quantum?

il nous fait dieux

Some would attribute the viewer’s demonstrated performance to some magical accessing of some galactic akashic record or some deep blue expression of the God in us all. But this is more than likely not the case.

Still others postulate a hypothetical signal line. While the dogma stipulates a signal line, few of them believe in it enough to commit to embracing the idea of a spectrum of frequency usage in remote viewing.

As an RF Engineer I agree with the concept of the signal line. It would seem that it is the most likely scenario. I am biased because I know the value of frequency. I know frequency is the scale of our real measure. There are those that believe there is no lower measure of frequency than the hertz. In reality it is an arbitrary measurement we apply in labeling that portion of spectrum we can actually detect and identify. It is like believing there is nothing below the big 55 on your radio dial. This is flat earth mentality in a universe scaled by frequency.

Remote Viewing is more than likely exactly what it seems to be. Exactly what it seems to be the most like. What logic implies. It is the exchange of information across fields of overlapping consciousness.

It is less a phenomenon and more a communication skill. For humans at our stage of evolution it is an advanced communication skill. It is possibly the most advanced communication skill able to be demonstrated by the human, able to be replicated by other humans, and the first non-local demonstration of communication to get a foot in the door of the scientific community. The keyword here is communication because the human only really does one thing. It seems to really only serve a single purpose. The human communicates. No matter how far down the road you go and what you see or say or do you still only communicate. All thought, all actions, all sensory exchanges, and everything associated with being human is a form of, or a facilitation of, communication. It is what we do. It is all we do.

The question is what kind of communication event is remote viewing? We know that the effect is realized in the conscious mind. Consciousness is a propagated field activity of the brain under electromagnetic bio-chemical influence. Consciousness is active when there is more than life. Life or the state of living does not imply consciousness.

Would science attribute consciousness to a single living cell? Would we attribute consciousness to inert material such as rocks or the dark matter of space?

Consciousness grants me the “I am”. It is the unique cerebral cognizance of myself in a virtual crowd of conscious beings sharing a common medium of space in time. Awareness is the expression of our individual consciousness in an active state. We function within the limitations of what we perceive that state to be and embrace a behavior of mind. It is that behavior that drives a projection of mentality. We assess each other on the displayed state of that mentality. We actually judge the competence of a person by their display of mentality, never really understanding the consciousness that is driving it or the mind that is shaping it. Consciousness is born of brain and mind on a foundation of bio-tissue, electromagnetics, and chemicals and exists not in matter but in fields and effects.

Laissez votre conscient soyez votre guide

An anomaly of consciousness is intuition. Evidence of intuition is evidence of a pathway or connectivity to something beyond the direct consciousness. It is an event of non-local awareness. Non-locality becomes more of a factor when dealing with any remote viewing activity. It is behavior outside the conventional mentality. Remote viewing seems to bridge the gap between fields of consciousness separated by space and time.

The task is to identify the type of communication that remote viewing is. Remote viewing is an advanced communication skill in humans which has a point of origin for transmission and reception that is identifiable. It happens in the human conscious awareness. This is a very important clue about the real nature of remote viewing.

The reception or realization of the non-local data occurs in the consciousness of the viewer. The consciousness is a propagated field environment. We say that it is a propagated field environment because that is exactly what it is. Consciousness, despite its many other attributes, qualities, and behaviors is not a physical thing. It is micro clustering of electromagnetic fields in and around its power source, the live human brain.

Any event of non-locality occurring within the conscious awareness of a human is demonstrative of an exchange between like fields of consciousness. The real missing information is what is the spark that ignites the state of non-locality?

We seem to be able to forecast remote viewing event size in terms of time but cannot solve it for frequency. Research in the event size in regards to sidereal time and the geomagnetic index reveal the type and nature of an environment that affects remote viewing performance or event size. Instead of a propagation chart showing the most and least useable frequencies for a block of time, we can only forecast the most useable and least useable time for the acquisition of non-local data. It is still demonstrative of propagated environment that can be forecasted in a limited way.

One thing we must all remember is that we do not know the truth of it. At best we have an idea and have devised an arbitrary means to secure a result. It is much like the mouse in the maze that has learned the route to the cheese. While we may excel in the maze and get fat on the cheese we are no closer to knowing the purpose of the maze or the source of the cheese. For some that is enough.

l’èpilogue

As humans we function almost exclusively in the past. Before I can say it I must formulate it and put it into language. I must speak it. Before you can hear my words they must travel to you and be collected, processed and understood within the field of your consciousness and intellect. All the while time has been steadily streaming and somewhere along the way we realize that we are functioning just a wee bit behind the now of reality. We realize that we are designed this way. We batch process bandwidth strips of the near past as our realized present. Simple non-locality for us would be to even for a single moment, grasp the real present, the real now. A place most of us think we are at already . . . but won’t realize for a few seconds. la fin

Glenn

>

Glenn:
Of course I was not at the class so I know nothing about what was discussed there. I don’t know if it had anything to do with my posting from Todd Murphy’s website. That was just a desire to share with anyone interested some interesting material that may well be related to RV. I wrote to Todd Murphy at the E-mail address on his site and he directed me to the artical of Dr.Persingers and its relationship to RV.

Science Does Not Know Consciousness is real but not physical Consciousness grants me the "I am." "These stories, like many others, give us clues about thr nature of our being…." <

Yes, but I would also say that the final out come may show that nature to be far different that we present imagine these clues to indicate.

Your post is a great piece of reading. Everyone is going to be very upset with you if you DON"T write a book!!!!!!!!(:-)

RG

Pame,

There are many things that are important when viewers work in a group. HRVG works exclusively with a particular methodology which not only facilitates analysis but allows for the common understanding of what’s to be done and how. I often ask is your mind right? I ask this because each of us shares a single collection method and it is designed to cascade and propel the viewer towards the intended target. To get viewers to a level where they become functional is a long training road of mind development. Understanding how we must think to remote view begins with initial training and continues into areas that become more concerned with mind, mentality, and consciousness. If you paid attention to the lecture on consciousness you would realize that it was specifically tailored to what we do in our operations at HRVG. I want you to think about the concepts I expose you to and not counter guess or dismiss them. I want you to understand and apply them. As the instructor I am not very likely to negotiate course content with the student.

It can be difficult exposing students to complex concepts especially concepts dealing with consciousness. Over the last several years I have tried to prepare everyone with the tools to wrestle with remote viewings most unusual environment. I have taken topics such as entrainment, masking, emulation, tasking, targeteering, monitoring, and multiple levels of analysis and empowered viewers with that knowledge with the goal to create a single point where the very best in this craft can work. I have provided for organization, facilities, automation, and a steady stream of targets to be worked and exploited. The content of our instructional blocks are the best available today. Find anyone in the community using complex applications such as S-7 Annex A,B,C.

With the assistance of so many along the way we have remained viable and have been able to train hundreds of viewers all over the world in a very robust on-line training environment as well as annual or semi-annual resident courses. HRVG has certified 8 instructors and twice that number of analysts over the years. For those of us that enjoy the classes here in Hawaii it is a unique opportunity to develop individuals beyond a single course. We make a training investment in our members and that is what sets us apart from the rest of the community.

We are at a point where certain performance ceilings can be exceeded. We are ready to break barriers and I really do need the group to remain cohesive while we tackle the long line of projects that will include masking and entrainments. Viable entrainments theoretically allows for the escalation of remote viewing from the passive to the active. Dick and I first wrote about this in an On Target article. To take everyone there means we must prepare. The lecture on consciousness lays foundation in how our brain sets itself to the task and how we make the jump from brain to ether. It is an area I know well after years of experience and a place I have been pushing everyone towards from the first class as a guild. Others in the Guild are anxious and want to push on. Lets go!

Glenn

Pame,

We are, I think we were, looking for what propagates RV and how one communicates within a RV field.

Buddhists understand that it’s not a matter of propagation, but a matter of sharing a place and time, all as one being with other people, works, trees, stars, and rocks.

I am unconvinced by any "theory" of RV, as I am unconvinced by any theory of Macrobiotic eating: I think the theories are half-baked an as yet naive (especially the theory of Macrobiotics.

I only know they WORK, …both RV and the good Macrobiotic diet.

It’s surely FALSE that the body carries out nucleosynthesis of Potassium from Sodium in the human body. I find the theory of Macrobiotics distasteful, since it is uninformed by reality; but the diet is tasty, and one can be mighty healthy following it happily.

Similarly with the theory — or theories — of RV. I think it’s (they’re) not well-founded, yet.

But, again, going back to what Buddhists know… when the mind is empty, still, unmoving, for days, weeks, etc., then it’s clear that Samadhi practice is effective, and all is clear and present; one cannot even *force* oneself to have a thought. There is nothing in the mind that takes time to come to completion; impressions and our reactions are spontaneous, and instantaneous. There is no holding on to anything. Everything is fleeting and always changing, and never leaves any trace.

In that sort of condition (our natural state, our original human inheritance), we use everything freely and are unhindered by personal hangups, conditioned hangups and responses and attitudes, and we know that we are all like fingers of the same hand.

Since the mind is unmoving, if anyone moves the mind, we feel it, and know what’s "up". It’s just like a spider web: if somebody/something shakes the spider web, we all know it, …if we’re in the web, and if there’s nothing else going on.

If there’s anything else going on… you’re "thinking" of something, you’re worrying about next month’s Visa bill, you’re seeing a bird and saying silently to yourself, "What a beautiful plumage", well, you’re lost and cut off from everything else that is there, everything which would be forcefully obvious if you were "quiet".

This is all incredibly elementary and fundamental to Buddhist practitioners who have stuck with the practice for a few decades, say. One does well to have a teacher, and a sangha, a Buddhist group, to practice with, so that you do not mislead yourself and others. Some of us have been blessed to practice with (Robert) Aitken Roshi for a long time (he just celebrated his 88th birthday, a few yars ago). He just moved from Kaimu, on the Big Island, to Honolulu, to a retirement community. Many of us owe him much for bringing the strong and true Zen Buddhist practice from Japan to the USA.

Some years ago when, after my two decades’ zen practice was a bit stagnant, I took up RV as a recreation. It came very easily to me: I could see the absolute necessity of the protocols for most folks, and even for folks whose "mind" (a bit of fiction, there) is rather quiet.

My first career was as an academic philosopher, but then I went into hard science and for the past three decades have been an Astronomer, and past two decades a Planetary Scientist. I do not feel that RV is as yet correctly characterized in detail according to a "theory", and I feel that the picture that RV-ers present of the Mind, or of a matrix of some sort, is incomplete and incorrect, but I *do* feel it is going somewhere. It’s not easy to yoke together the empty, unmoving and complete mind with the Scientific and moving mind. At best, I feel it can only be done metaphorically, and not objectively. Telling a person about the still and empty mind is no substitute for being still and empty of mind. But what a lot of work it takes to empty out! Surely, for RV-ers, the protocols and disciplines we learn are helpful blessings. It would be better to learn and practice deep meditation: the right meditation is about 100 percent physical: if you feel that the mind has anything to do with it, you may be going wrong. At best, body and mind *both* fall away. But those who have read about Zen practice know that this is how it’s represented to beginners. What one must do is to begin, and to continue. Same thing with RV.

Maybe I’ve been rambling. I hope I haven’t gotten carried away.

Back to your point: I manintain there is NOT propagation of anything in RV. All is already there. It’s just a matter of having nothing going on in order to be able to grasp it immediately. And, if not immediately, then via the quietening made possible — however imperfectly — by the protocols, methods, etc., of RV.

Physicists such as myself know about Mach’s Principle: this is an explanation of the origin of "inertia". Ernst Mach proclaimed his sense and intuition that Inertia of one piece of matter in the universe is due to the presence of all other matter in the universe. This is not quite a good analog of "Mind", as Buddhists understand (and appreciate) it, but it comes close. Everything is there in the mind: if you yourself are quiet, and have nothing going on in the false, moving, experience we incorrectly call "the mind", then all will be accessible, anytime, to you. It’s only natural! It takes practice, physical practice, to change your physical state, and return to the true, un-moving, open, empty, and clear mind, which is our original inheritance. Pity if we don’t! But it’s not easy, and takes the right conditions and circumstances. Maybe RV-practice can be a beginning: but why not go for the gold?

Sunday, November 13, 2005

Hi Joe;

In other words; if you don’t mind me rephrasing your words to my understanding;

You have mixed a diet and a mental method together; and I agree with its compatibility to facilitate a healthy environment to proliferate a strong contact in & for ultimate performance of the mind. The stillness of the mental thoughts to nothing is something to achieve, but it is a design to teach/ master control of the mental functions, but it is not a state to stay in all the time. It would be the same as being in a unconsciousness state. You would stop learning and transform yourself into just a receiver that didn’t communicate… unless you were hooked up to something that could record that information. But, that is what radios were for. The same is said for lack of physical activity, to long without activity is not good for the physical body. I believe we would be going full circle, that is we would be becoming a consciousness without a bio-body.
The thought of showing how we all can share one thought is again a method, 1. To show connectivity, 2. To again learn how to control ones own mind., 3. To be able to do it at will.
To sum up my observation on it all… everything has been put out there by everyone who has been, so all we are is proving it is retrievable by a method of design that can be taught and facilitated by a human mind… if the science of this world is able to replicate it in a scientific manor that is not bio-electric matter, imagine what it would do with it.
————
===this statement seams to sum it up well…
You said;
Back to your point: I maintain there is NOT propagation of anything in
RV. All is already there. It’s just a matter of having nothing going on
in order to be able to grasp it immediately. And, if not immediately, then
via the quietening made possible — however imperfectly — by the protocols,
methods, etc., of RV.
————–
Thank you, for your input, it is well appreciated.
Pame

Joe,
Interesting response from you and I agree with the importance of silencing the mind. Thanks for posting your views!!

One thing I would like to add is that anyone wishing to silence the mind quickly and easily should try the book "Stillness Speaks" by Eckhart Tolle.

This book was designed to have the reader silence his/her mind very quickly, in fact the author says that as he wrote this book his mind was in a silent state, and that silence is transfered to the reader. I’ve even found (and the author mentions this himself) that just holding the book can quiet your mind. I know this sounds farfetched, but this is an incredible tool, this book amazes me constantly.

J.P.

Hi, Pame,

You have mixed a diet and a mental method together; and I agree with its compatibility to facilitate a healthy environment to proliferate a strong contact in & for ultimate performance of the mind.

Nope; that’s not it (sorry).

I mention the "theory" of Macrobiotic eating only as another example of a failed explanation.

The diet works great, and is healthy; the theory, though, as proposed by even such a famous exponent and proponent as Georges Ohzawa, is gobbly-di-gook, however.

The dear old fellow tried to put the diet on some sort of western scientific footing, for, err-r, consumption in the West, but, alas, without his knowing any Science himself (the "theory" he drew up shows that).

It’s unfortunate, and, to a certain extent, gives macrobiotics a bad name, among those who know some natural science.

But, again, the diet is GOOD!

And, I think RV is GOOD.

But all theories of it so far seem naive and incorrect, to me.

Now, on to the other failed theory: the "theory" of RV:

I maintain that there is no "transmission" in RV; but when the mind is quiet, and empty, all impressions are there to be felt. It’s a matter of quietening. And using the protocols faithfully.

Better if we have *no idea* how it works; that busy-ness only gets in the way, and is always bound to be incorrect, anyway. See what works, use what works, and refine what works. I don’t think a theory or an "understanding" will help, here. And I speak as a practicing scientist (as well as an RV-er).

All best,

–Joe / Tucson

Thanks for the kind words, J.P.

I think the Buddhists have the best empirical theory of Mind, and I do not see anything put forward by any RV-er that is anything other than forgiveably naive, incomplete, and incorrect.

Buddhism has worked on this "problem" (the nature of mind) for a couple thousand years, now. RV has had a few decades of mulling over it: RV’s some-time connection with drugs (Bay-Area, early days…), and with Science, has/have not helped it even minutely approach what the Buddhists have put down on paper, from their experiments and experience over centuries of discipline and attentive life.

It’s not something one can study if/when the mind is moving.

One thing I would like to add is that anyone wishing to silence the mind quickly and easily should try the book "Stillness Speaks" by Eckhart Tolle.

I’ll check into the book, thank you. It might help a beginning student of meditation, but in general we do *not* want to mix our approaches if we already are working within a tradition of practice (religion). I will look it up and perhaps keep it as a reference for folks just starting out, if it seems the right thing for them at the time, and if they do not seem ready to adopt traditional zen practice.

Thanks again!

w/ Regards,

–Joe / Tucson

Joe you stated:

"I think the Buddhists have the best empirical theory of Mind, and I do not see anything put forward by any RV-er that is anything other than forgiveably naive, incomplete, and incorrect."

The problem here in that you’re too far from the RV world to really judge, you can’t go by just what’s on this board as well as what can be gotten from the rest of the Internet to judge properly. I’m not knocking the Buddhists at all, and they probably DO have some great methods, BUT you need to get closer to the RV world, and by that I mean, get to know some RVers from the HRVG up-close and personal.

I’ve had that opportunity, to get up-close and personal and can say Glenn Wheaton is such an outstanding RVer, as to make a mockery of many other top-notch RVers out there. He can do things that are unreal, or even unheard of, in the RV world and most people will disbelieve, unless they are standing next to him while he’s RVing.

This is a good point you brought up, but again, you have to get closer to really make a sound judgement. I just wanted to bring this up, since not many have the opportunity to get close to someone who’s a first class RVer and see what they can do.

Another person who’s got some real talent is Dick Allgire. Someone who started out with just about no ability whatsoever and through alot of practice turned himself into one the top RVers in the HRVG.

I’m not just saying this to kiss-ass either, there are things not spoken about on this board that you MIGHT get a chance to see, if you had time to spend with Glenn and Dick.

So be careful here, there might be more to this than meets the eye!

J.P.

J.P.,

Quite alright; and, no need to beg, my friend. ;-)

I *do* maintain that all the theories put forward by any RV-er about how RV "works", and about the mind, seem to me to be naive and half-baked, and they ignore over 2000 years of accomplishment in the study and understanding of the mind which Buddhists have compiled.

There seems too much attempt by modern RV theorists to explain the phenomenon of our mind’s sensitivity by invoking principles that appear to be akin to those of physical science.

I speak as a physicist, and as a practicing Zen Buddhist in (Robert) Aitken Roshi’s lineage, of Honolulu, Hawai’i.

To Buddhists, RV is a side-effect, and it is usually not persued; life is short, and there are (much) better things to do, when you come right down to it. But it’s natural to be fascinated for a while.

I took up RV in a dry period of my practice when I wanted some entertainment. It was good for that! I was fully aware of the reality of RV from many years before, as a result of effective meditation practice, after the body began to change and basic health blossomed immeasurably. So I took up formal training in RV and found it very, very easy.

When we ragain our full human inheritance, all our faculties blossom. For example, one becomes a "natural" psychic (because one always *has* been, it’s just been covered up by motion of the mind), and one knows that RV is not only possible, but it is merely a facet of the way that the mind and the universe are postured.

Thus, concepts like "transmission", and other concepts of RV-theorists like "matrix", etc., are simply naive and partially-baked graspings assembled by the half-baked themselves, as they try to make RV seem less dependent on spiritual reality and more like hard science.

I do not criticize those who feel they must make up *some* theory in order to answer students’ probing questions: but I lament that there is so much deception, however inadvertent, in the half-baked theories, and so many thoughts put in motion in the hearers (or students) by those wrong models and concepts, which are based on such a narrow, utilitarian, greedy, approach to the use and characterization of the mind.

A spiritual teacher, very imperfect himself, called this pollution "Spiritual Materialism". It was the Tibetan, Chogyam Trungpa, and the late Lama’s description is very apt.

I think it’s fine to practice RV, and to appreciate the mind and the fact of our closeness, all of us, together: people, geckos, stars, trees, and stones.

But false *theories* of the phenomenon are really unnecessary, unhelpful, misleading, and wasteful. Life is short. It’s not too soon to dig down and find the real gold, which is pretty ordinary.

I know that RV people can do amazing things (I’m one of them). It is real, certainly, but it is rather a parlor-trick, though, in the grand scheme of things.

But I can recommend it for fun, just as I used it for a few years while learning its methods; or, perhaps, as a stepping-stone toward quietening the mind and facilitating a person’s taking up a genuine meditation practice with a long and quality-controlled tradition and lineage behind it.

w/ Cheers,

–Joe / Tucson

The problem here in that you’re too far from the RV world to really judge, [snip]

Aloha Joe,

Alas we are not Buddhists. Buddhism is a religion first and foremost. I think to proffer here the tenants of religious belief as the path to RV success or excellence is "out of venue" for this forum especially in the same thread where you state that any ideas about how and why RV works by us "seem to me to be naive and half-baked".

In our world, in my world, this is not only a bit of an insult, but a bit dismaying as the merits of the benefits of meditation to assist RV would surely be missed. We do have Buddhists who are in the Guild, but as I do not take then to my church, they in kind do not take me to theirs.

Glenn

Hi Joe;

I didn’t quite mean to associate that particular diet, but just healthy eating in general.

I never did the Macrobiotic diet, but, If I understand the Macrobiotic diet had phases and one of them was very lacking, in balance nutrition. I was only inferring to the Macrobiotic healthy eating association.

So, no food , then there is no existence.

Quality food, quality existence.
A quality health, feeds a healthy brain.
Healthy Brain, good training, sharp mind.
Sharp mind, enables abilities.
Using abilities, by training focus, you could Pick RV.
So it comes down to one does not exist without the other…
At one time facilitated by some type of element at some point in/or out of time.
—————————–
{you said;>
But all theories of it so far seem naive and incorrect, to me.
Now, on to the other failed theory: the "theory" of RV:
I maintain that there is no "transmission" in RV; but when the mind is
quiet, and empty, all impressions are there to be felt. It’s a matter of
quietening. And using the protocols faithfully.
—————————–
Not sure why you go from a failed theory to, what you need to do to do it.
Are you testing my observation? ;o)
——————————-
{you said;>
Better if we have *no idea* how it works; that busy-ness only gets in the
way, and is always bound to be incorrect, anyway. See what works, use what
works, and refine what works. I don’t think a theory or an "understanding"
will help, here. And I speak as a practicing scientist (as well as an RV-er).
——————————–
So summing it up would be, blind faith w/ belief, And everything is possible.
Sometimes things sound so much like double-talk, it just makes me think of it as a puzzle that needs working out.

Mahalo, for the exercise.

Do you have your own theory how RV functions /or is Grasped / retrieved from where all information exists?

,="

Pame

I would add one thing to Joe’s comments. First let me say that my wife is a Buddhist and I probably prefer Buddhism to the 3 major religions that came out of the middle east.

But Joe you were quite dismissive of remote viewing. Sort of a "been there, done that, no problem" attitude. In this community you are accepted by your published work. You would have a lot more credibility if you could show some examples of remote viewing work you produced under blind protocol. Anywhere we can see remote viewing work you did with a reliable chain of custody?

Aloha,

Dick

Hello,

Wow, Pame, interesting discussion. After reading the train of input from RV to Buddhism (interesting pathway), I would like to insert my comments into the melting pot of thoughts:

First, the interjection of Joe’s comment that RV is merely a half-baked theory is based on his perception of RV as psychic viewing. RV is not a byproduct of meditation whether Buddhist, Hindu, Essene, or Crackerjack Hippie. The interpretion of RV is as varied as the shades of the color blue. However, I understand what Joe means when he used the term "byproduct." After prolonged meditation, the intuitive senses become more refined and psychic ability is enhanced and from my own experience, it is even more pronounced when one maintains a vegetarian diet.

Remote viewing uses a progressive, systematic methodology aimed at communication between the subconscious and primary awareness. If it is "half baked," then, using tangible terms, it will never be fully cooked or well done because science, that mechanism that uses materialism, cannot fully substantiate the intangible world of the "other" degrees of consciousness outside what can only be physically proven.

So, back to RV. The overarching theme of Glenn’s class on Monday was merely to instill within the group, an awareness of the electromagnetic impulses associated with remote viewing. I believe it also involves the concept of vibration and of mind’s response to vibration.

I do not believe any reference was made in class to that form of "consciousness" which is idealistically defined as the gradually increasing realization of the developing response of "subjective" life to its environment. Some of us believe that this may lead to the ideal of a unified existence which may be the synthesis of all the lines of evolution and to a conception of a central life force which melds and holds together all of the evolving units of matter whether atomic in nature, or units of consciousness.

Ok, off the bandwagon, now. Take care, all

Sita

I’ll buy that!

hope it wont be too expensive.
P

>

First, the interjection of Joe’s comment that RV is merely a half-baked theory is based on his perception of RV as psychic viewing. RV is not a byproduct of meditation whether Buddhist, Hindu, Essene, or Crackerjack Hippie. The interpretion of RV is as varied as the shades of the color blue. However, I understand what Joe means when he used the term "byproduct." After prolonged meditation, the intuitive senses become more refined and psychic ability is enhanced and from my own experience, it is even more pronounced when one maintains a vegetarian diet.

Remote viewing uses a progressive, systematic methodology aimed at communication between the subconscious and primary awareness. If it is "half baked," then, using tangible terms, it will never be fully cooked or well done because science, that mechanism that uses materialism, cannot fully substantiate the intangible world of the "other" degrees of consciousness outside what can only be physically proven.

So, back to RV. The overarching theme of Glenn’s class on Monday was merely to instill within the group, an awareness of the electromagnetic impulses associated with remote viewing. I believe it also involves the concept of vibration and of mind’s response to vibration.

I do not believe any reference was made in class to that form of "consciousness" which is idealistically defined as the gradually increasing realization of the developing response of "subjective" life to its environment. Some of us believe that this may lead to the ideal of a unified existence which may be the synthesis of all the lines of evolution and to a conception of a central life force which melds and holds together all of the evolving units of matter whether atomic in nature, or units of consciousness.

Ok, off the bandwagon, now. Take care, all

Sita

Regarding Buddism,( I am not a buddist ) I have been making an atempt at insight meditation as taught by Jack Kornfield. I have found that many times in the process of "bringing my attention back to the breath" as opposed to letting my attention wander ( lack of focus )things DO happen. Images DO tend to emerge from the darkness. SO I cannot help by think this kind of meditation might be in some way useful for remote viewing and cdertainly an excellent cooldown method.

RG