The Real X-Files: Video Online

Don’t worry, ‘personal offense’ to me means a gun or knife to my stomach — not flowery, jejune (if not puerile) commentary.

Schnabel’s session was ‘perfect’ because he was personally trained by me (including some advanced skills that even Ingo was unaware of, prior to running a basic training session with Ingo. (Schnabel came to me as a sceptic, fresh from his job at CIA). You might also want to ask Mel who trained him in RV. Mel, unlike Lyn (who failed my training), does not lie.

This is the first time I have ever actually SEEN this video – FANTASTIC!

Starting with the forever warm, beautiful, naturally intelligent presence of Mel Riley and featuring the dazzling and fiercely sensitive taskmaster Ingo Swann, the gentle relationship-honoring Lyn and Linda Buchanan – speaking of RV impacts on marriage, the theoretically scientific Hal Puthoff, the officiously military Admiral Stansfield Turner and Major General Ed Thompson, spoonbender spokesman – Colonel John Alexander, the reporting Jim Schnabel doing a perfect RV session with Ingo, and the always tragically comic RV anti-hero, Major Ed Dames (Luke Skywalker??? :-) – no personal offense meant to Major Ed Dames – I know you are very well respected on this board) and his ex-wife Christine.

Those in the RV world know that Jim Schnabel, who wrote and narrated this special, also wrote one of the seminal history books on the US government military remote viewing program: Remote Viewers: The Secret History of America’s Psychic Spies.

www.eyepod.org/Video-Remote-Viewing.html

Joanie

TraLahLah~~~TriddleDeeDeeDee ~~~There’s peace and goodwill~~~You’re welcome as the flowers on mockingbird hill~~~

>

Don’t worry, ‘personal offense’ to me means a gun or knife to my stomach — not flowery, jejune (if not puerile) commentary.

Schnabel’s session was ‘perfect’ because he was personally trained by me, including some advanced skills that even Ingo was unaware of, prior to running a basic training session with Ingo. (Schnabel came to me as a sceptic, fresh from his job at CIA). You might also want to ask Mel who trained him in RV. Mel, unlike Lyn (who failed my training), does not lie.

the dozens of erroneous TRV derived "facts" you presented on CoastToCoast and elsewhere over the years?

No disrespect to Ed Dames…

He was my first teacher. Despite all the negative press I’m deeply grateful for the first TRV modules that were put out. Wish I could have met him in LA. Damn him for canceling that training ;-)

What I would like to know from Dames is where TRV failed what lessons can he pass on to the next generation so those mistakes aren’t repeated again and again?

RV is still a "clunky module-T" from what it could be. Rather then each RV organization going it alone and attacking the other it would be more productive advancing the science if we collaborated and learned from successes as well as failures.

You learn the most from your greatest failures, but it’s far better to learn from other’s failures.

With that in mind Ed, where TRV seemed to have failed as well as succeeded, what lessons can you pass along to the next generation?

What were the biggest mistakes to be avoided?

You all know it takes balls to take a definite stand on RV data alone… And it takes brass balls to make that stand on national radio. So you’ve gotta hand it to Ed for doing that.

Although it would be nice to be able to grill Ed over a drink some time… really hold his feet to the fire and get a few answers. No disrespect to you Mr. Dames. I think you would rather enjoy that conversation. And I’m sure I would learn a lot from the interaction.

Ed, are you up for that?

Aloha

Nemo

A practical and, I also believe, valuable idea. My schedule is packed for the next few months, but we’ll find a good venue and time.

Doom

No disrespect to Ed Dames…

He was my first teacher. Despite all the negative press I’m deeply grateful for the first TRV modules that were put out. Wish I could have met him in LA. Damn him for canceling that training ;-)

What I would like to know from Dames is where TRV failed what lessons can he pass on to the next generation so those mistakes aren’t repeated again and again?

RV is still a "clunky module-T" from what it could be. Rather then each RV organization going it alone and attacking the other it would be more productive advancing the science if we collaborated and learned from successes as well as failures.

You learn the most from your greatest failures, but it’s far better to learn from other’s failures.

With that in mind Ed, where TRV seemed to have failed as well as succeeded, what lessons can you pass along to the next generation?

What were the biggest mistakes to be avoided?

You all know it takes balls to take a definite stand on RV data alone… And it takes brass balls to make that stand on national radio. So you’ve gotta hand it to Ed for doing that.

Although it would be nice to be able to grill Ed over a drink some time… really hold his feet to the fire and get a few answers. No disrespect to you Mr. Dames. I think you would rather enjoy that conversation. And I’m sure I would learn a lot from the interaction.

Ed, are you up for that?

Aloha Nemo

Hi guys, sorry ro jump in here – but as a person interested in rv history am I right in that Ed says he trained Lyn B, and that Lyn didnt finish training?

Or am I grasping at the wrong stick here?

All the best…

Daz Smith

Hi guys, sorry ro jump in here – but as a person interested in rv history am I right in that Ed says he trained Lyn B, and that Lyn didnt finish training?

Uh-oh, this could get ugly. Oh well, it will probably liven up the old Bulletin Board, lol.

Daz,

Here is my advice. You need to read all the books, by David Morehouse (Ed says that was HIS book), Joe McMoneagle, Lyn, Jim Schnable, all of them. Look at the Firedocs archives.

And if you really want to understand the community and its history you need to meet them in all person. I once bought an airline ticket and hotel room and flew to where Ed Dames was, just to meet him and spend an evening talking with him. Several of us had Ed all to ourselves for a good portion of the evening, standing in the kitchen drinking wine, and Ed answered any question we threw at him.

At every IRVA conference after his presentation a crowd gathers around Lyn Buchanan and he patiently answers questions as long as anyone cares to ask. Same with Paul Smith.

I am lucky because Glenn Wheaton has a history with Joe McMoneagle. Because of this I have been able to correspond with Joe.

We got to spend a lot of time with Skip Atwater when he came to Hawaii for a book signing and visited the guild.

We even have tapes and actual session work from Stargate archives, and have listened to monitored sessions from the rickety old building at Ft. Meade.

I think I have a pretty good idea of who’s who and who’s done what in the civilian RV world. I don’t think I want to see it all rehashed here.

Just about everyone in the RV world is friendly and approachable. You can do your homework and work most of it out.

Aloha,

Dick

PS, Glenn has most if not all of the dirty laundry of the Post Disclosure RV world stashed away on a hard drive somewhere.

Ed writes: Don’t worry, ‘personal offense’ to me means a gun or knife to my stomach — not flowery, jejune (if not puerile) commentary.

Schnabel’s session was ‘perfect’ because he was personally trained by me (including some advanced skills that even Ingo was unaware of, prior to running a basic training session with Ingo. (Schnabel came to me as a sceptic, fresh from his job at CIA). You might also want to ask Mel who trained him in RV. Mel, unlike Lyn (who failed my training), does not lie.

Hello Ed,

I think it’s fair enough for you to respond tit for tit given my perhaps "puerile" commentary reflecting on the "rumor mill of your public persona," however I don’t think my entire post was "juvenile." I do not know you personally and perhaps I have more misunderstood/misjudged you from the influences of other people’s talk for so many years. It has certainly happened to me due to the "selective memories" and or psychological projections of others and I have been wounded by it – I am certainly aware of the prevalence of lies and lying and lies-a-lot. I agree with you – Mel does not lie.

To be honest, besides not knowing you personally, I really have not made a study of you, as in following your work or your appearances on Art Bell – I have only read the commentaries that have been on the RV boards all these years. I did not want to censor my comment for the mere sake of your being here (since I felt that would by hypocritical on my part and it would appear as if censoring my words to kiss your *rse). However, if I have been unfair, then I do apologize.

I truly enjoyed your contributions and presence in the Schnabel video. And I have indeed heard some great things about you. Also I DO believe as you do that certain powers that be are deeply interested in all things UFO/alien, despite how this is continually scoffed and mocked, and those who speak truth to power are often marginalized. I truly respect all you have done to bring RV to public awareness…with your passion, devotion and your intelligence.

That said…I will follow up to a specific since the post drummed up a bit of a duststorm on the IRVA list – that is, someone linked your response post to the list. You suggested I ask Mel who trained him. Paul Smith stated that you were asking me to ask Mel rhetorically and that Mel was committee-trained.

Here is my response to Paul (awaiting approval from IRVA moderators or whoever they have to go through – NSA? Karl Rove? to get my posts approved – IRVA-sanctioned and agreed to for public consumption):

"I thought differently from you and did not conclude that Ed’s suggestion to ask Mel was rhetorical. And since I was the one to whom Ed directed that suggestion, I thought it would be a good idea to ask Mel directly and here is what he said:

‘As to training; Paul Smith gave me the lectures and theory, but Ed Dames was my trainer. Hope that clears things up.’

So hope that clears things up (or at least includes Mel’s point of view added to the memory pot.) Guess everyone has selective memory :-)."

As to your comment about Lyn failing your training, if true, I don’t much care. Smith did refute your comments on this, stating that you gave Lyn mostly + marks (as the grading was based on pluses (+) and minuses (-). Frankly I find focusing on how bad or good some famous RVers did in classes years ago pretty distasteful and unconstructive. The more important thing (imo) is whatever happened in the past is no reflection on the kind of remote viewer Lyn is today. Many many people that have worked with or studied with Lyn know he’s an extraordinary remote viewer and that bears out with his sessions from the Stargate archives. He is also an excellent and consummate RV teacher. Well…"If at first you don’t succeed, try try again."

BTW..no one refuted your comment about training Jim Schnabel – thanks for sharing that.

Much thanks for your thoughts –

Less jejunely yours,

Joanie

PS, Glenn has most if not all of the dirty laundry of the Post Disclosure RV world stashed away on a hard drive somewhere.

I’d love to be a bug in that machine.. :-)

Aloha Typper,

If it were all, perfect, and ordered, and disciplined I just don’t believe it would be as much fun as it has all been. I am reminded of Art Bell’s interstitial "Wanna Take A Ride?"

My long years Spying for America left me with a habit of storing, cataloging, sorting, and analyzing information. The RV community and its’ history goes way beyond what’s been written or chatted about here and there. Perhaps I will publish a top ten-list of the most significant things ever said within our community. You may be surprised from whence the wisdom springs. Or better yet a top-ten list of what RV has actually been able to accomplish.

I lament that the community is in such disarray, but as we here persist, others also will hang tough and ride out the chaos until our lunatic fringe falls far behind to waste in the flotsam flapdoodle quagmire in that place where BS stops when gravity has done its’ best.

Aloha Glenn

and the always tragically comic RV anti-hero, Major Ed Dames (Luke Skywalker??? :-) – no personal offense meant to Major Ed Dames – I know you are very well respected on this board) and his ex-wife Christine.

sigh,

couldnt you have just simply posted the link and story as old as it is and be done with it without having to insult the guy? The boards here have been very peaceful
please lets keep it that way.

Lyn

Those in the RV world know that Jim Schnabel, who wrote and narrated this special, also wrote one of the seminal history books on the US government military remote viewing program: Remote Viewers: The Secret History of America’s Psychic Spies.

www.eyepod.org/Video-Remote-Viewing.html

Joanie

TraLahLah~~~TriddleDeeDeeDee ~~~There’s peace and goodwill~~~You’re welcome as the flowers on mockingbird hill~~~

>

And if you really want to understand the community and its history you need to meet them in all person. I once bought an airline ticket and hotel room and flew to where Ed Dames was, just to meet him and spend an evening talking with him. Several of us had Ed all to ourselves for a good portion of the evening, standing in the kitchen drinking wine, and Ed answered any question we threw at him.

Was it all off the record? I don’t recall any discussion about it. Did you ask about all the extreme data and failed predictions?

Hello Lyn –

I hear your concern, but let me please reassure you that it is a non-issue. As I said in my response to Major Dames, my words were a commentary reflecting on the "rumor mill of his public persona." And I clearly stated no offense was meant to be taken. I’m confident he is aware of what I meant by that since he’s no stranger to what’s said by various people on the the RV boards and I don’t take him to be naive about how some people perceive his persona either. Those who know me absolutely KNOW that I have NEVER insulted Ed and it’s not my nature to just callously hurt others feelings just for the sadistic sake of it.

I have no idea who you are, but it’s amazing from time to time how people come out of the woodwork from absolutely seemingly nowhere to flame people. I don’t respond to flames if that was your intent.

If it wasn’t your intent and you are GENUINELY concerned then let me reassure you that your concern has already been put to rest. I think Ed’s neat!

Peace and Goodwill :-)

Joanie

>

sigh, couldnt you have just simply posted the link and story as old as it is and be done with it without having to insult the guy? The boards here have been very peaceful please lets keep it that way.

Lyn

Was it all off the record? I don’t recall any discussion about it. Did you ask about all the extreme data and failed predictions?

This was in early 1997, when RV was just getting big on Art Bell. It was prior to the first big dire prediction of the engineered plant pathogen, which was made later that year after the party.

In fact, according to one of the students who was taught at that time, they were just then generating the sessions that provided the data for the big "plant pathogen going to wipe out all green plants on earth" prediction. The party was held to celebrate the completion of their training. So no, we did not discuss that. The conversation was more about RV in general, which was new to many of us at that time. My point is Ed was friendly and gracious. If you ever get a chance to attend a party with him- whether you believe him or not- he’s a very interesting person to talk to, and he’s quite affable.

Aloha,

Dick

Hi dick,
I have read all these books and many others – the problem is all the counter claims and arguments over the years are just swirling into one big jumbled mess for me now.

I understand your comments and would love to meet these guys but as I hail from the Uk its just too damn expensive. The only teachers I am aware that has visited the UK are Angela T Smith And Prudence.

Im interested in your ten important thing though how about posting them?

And Ok at your request we wont rehash this here. Hey its your board!

I do have some questions for eED though – because to mewith all the crazy wayout Rv sessions he produces and discusses on Coast to Coast amongst others – it juts looks like to me hes still doing his Military intelligence job of the past and muddying the waters of Rv in the public eye. So my question is ED are you still employed in any capacity by the military/intelligence/government in regard to remote viewing?

AND as we all here have a basic working knowledge of Rv – how and why are your primary predictions always so far out or just plain wrong? Ive been Rving for nine years, and rv with alot of viewers all over the net – no one seems to be this far out all the time – and all of us arent trained by the best of the best, in a militray program.

Dont get me wrong I think Ed’s preemptive strike of setting up his company and getting Rv out just before it unofficially broke in ’95 was a great move! – and he has done alot to bring Rv into the public domain – but in the same breath, singlehandedly these strange Rv predictions (that smack of disinformation) have also hindered and damaged the growth of RV in the public and professional minds?

All the best…

Daz

Hello Lyn –

I’m confident he is aware of what I meant by that since he’s no stranger to what’s said by various people on the the RV boards and I don’t take him to be naive about how some people perceive his persona either. Those who know me absolutely KNOW that I have NEVER insulted Ed and it’s not my nature to just callously hurt others feelings just for the sadistic sake of it.

Maybe,

But at least try and be aware that your initial post
would be considered by some as classical baiting knowing full well Dames posts here frequently and possible end up with him responding the way he did which has once again diverted real RV talk with pointless RV History lessons no one seems able to prove one way or another on IRVA and now here. Thankfully most of the endless drivel is moderated at IRVA.

Yours,

Lyns

Aloha Typper,

If it were all, perfect, and ordered, and disciplined I just don’t believe it would be as much fun as it has all been. I am reminded of Art Bell’s interstitial "Wanna Take A Ride?"

Yes indeed. Life is certainly more interesting with a little chaos swirling in the mix. :-)

My long years Spying for America left me with a habit of storing, cataloging, sorting, and analyzing information. The RV community and its’ history goes way beyond what’s been written or chatted about here and there. Perhaps I will publish a top ten-list of the most significant things ever said within our community. You may be surprised from whence the wisdom springs. Or better yet a top-ten list of what RV has actually been able to accomplish.

I would love for you to do that. Perhaps I could even help.

I was a pretty good tech writer and editor in my day.

One question though: is the most interesting material still

(if it ever was) classified?

I lament that the community is in such disarray, but as we here persist, others also will hang tough and ride out the chaos until our lunatic fringe falls far behind to waste in the flotsam flapdoodle quagmire in that place where BS stops when gravity has done its’ best.

Aloha Glenn

I have no doubt about that whatsoever.

Perhaps someday fate will give me the opportunity to work with and learn from the very professional folks in your organization.

trypper

I side with Joanie’s post.
What I recognize of Your post is, what you accuse Joanie of doing. :-(
————————————–

Maybe, But at least try and be aware that your initial post would be considered by some as classical baiting knowing full well Dames posts here frequently and possible end up with him responding the way he did which has once again diverted real RV talk with pointless RV History lessons no one seems able to prove one way or another on IRVA and now here. Thankfully most of the endless drivel is moderated at IRVA.

Yours, Lyns

>

Lyn writes:

>> Thankfully most of the endless drivel is moderated at IRVA.

Please post up the IRVA policy on moderation and censorship. I don’t think it’s public knowledge. I have asked and got no response. I was told if posts don’t get posted, simply "don’t ask." After that, for the sake of sanity, I dropped my inquiries.

Help enlighten all of us!

Thanks much –

Joanie

Lyn writes:

Please post up the IRVA policy on moderation and censorship. I don’t think it’s public knowledge. I have asked and got no response. I was told if posts don’t get posted, simply "don’t ask." After that, for the sake of sanity, I dropped my inquiries.

Hi

You have to remember its a big list and as one

can imagine, a nightmare to moderate. Personaly,
Ive never had a problem and rarely if ever have i
had a post returned or rejected. So I cant answer your
question. Are you constantly having your posts
rejected for some reason? Iam sure a kind word to
the list MOD will clear matters up or has it gone beyond that ?

Yours,

Lyn

Gee I must be missing something – I’ve been a member of IRVA for years and never seen a post from you :-).

Lyn Buchanan yes – but are you presenting yourself to be Lyn Buchanan? Hmmm I don’t think so. But if that is what you are trying to do…hmmm is that what they call identitiy theft? Is that breaking the law? No other Lyn posts to IRVA so you are obviously an imposter full of crap.

Joanie

>

Hi

You have to remember its a big list and as one can imagine, a nightmare to moderate. Personaly, Ive never had a problem and rarely if ever have i had a post returned or rejected. Yours, Lyn

Did i ever say i was Lyn Buchannon ?

Is he the ONLY lyn in the entire world ?
and did i say my name at IRVA was Lyn ?
as for being "full of crap", well i’ll just leave that
last insult up there for all to see.

Yours,

Lyn

Gee I must be missing something – I’ve been a member of IRVA for years and never seen a post from you :-).

Lyn Buchanan yes – but are you presenting yourself to be Lyn Buchanan? Hmmm I don’t think so. But if that is what you are trying to do…hmmm is that what they call identitiy theft? Is that breaking the law? No other Lyn posts to IRVA so you are obviously an imposter full of crap.

Joanie

To unknown person who calls him/herslef "Lyn."

Like I said before…

Peace and Goodwill :-)

Joanie

Did i ever say i was Lyn Buchannon ? Is he the ONLY lyn in the entire world ? and did i say my name at IRVA was Lyn ? as for being "full of crap", well i’ll just leave that last insult up there for all to see.

Yours, Lyn

A week or so ago someone posted to the IRVAmembers e-mail group a link to Ed Dames’s answer to a post Joanie Sullivan had made about the Real X-Files documentary. I thought I’d (finally) respond to Ed’s comments about his association with Jim Schnabel and also his training of Lyn Buchanan and Mel Riley.

Ed makes several claims – 1) that Jim Schnabel was trained by him before Schnabel went on to take a “basic” training course from Ingo; 2) that Schnabel did a “perfect” session for the Real X-files documentary thanks to the training he had from Ed; 3) that Lyn Buchanan failed his (Ed Dames’s) training; and 4) (by implication) that he, Dames, trained Mel Riley. Ed also makes an off-hand comment about Jim Schnabel coming to the Dames training “fresh from the CIA.” As we shall see, all but one of these claims is mistaken. I shall respond to the Buchanan and Riley claims first, and then address the Schnabel references.

I’ll begin with the Buchanan comment. Before I do, though, to be fair to Ed, he isn’t the only one to be confused about this episode. Lyn himself gets it wrong, as well. Ed says Lyn failed the training. Lyn says Ed was never his trainer. Both are incorrect. Here is what was really the case: Lyn didn’t "fail" Ed’s training as Ed claims in this post. It wasn’t really “Ed’s training,” anyway. Dames was only one of several that worked to train Lyn. I was involved as well, as were Bill Ray, Skip Atwater, and Tom McNear, and Gene Lessman. Lyn’s training started months before Ed even came to the unit. Of the session transcripts that I have thus far found in the archives, Skip Atwater monitored Lyn on eight sessions; Bill Ray did one with Lyn; Gene Lessman did one; and I monitored on nine (besides presenting the several theory lectures).

Ed Dames was monitor on 18 of these training sessions, after being assigned to the unit (on 31 January 1986) during the tail end of Lyn’s Stage III training. Ed mostly took over from there, monitoring a small number of Buchanan’s S-3 sessions, then many (though not all) of his S-4, -5, and -6 sessions. – including Lyn’s "graduation session"on July 14, 1986 – and awarded Lyn mostly ‘+’ marks (we either got ‘+’ or ‘-‘ as evaluations on training sessions during that period).

It’s evident from the evaluation marks and verbiage in many of the remarks sections on the cover sheets – all in Dames’s handwriting – that Ed did not at the time feel that Lyn had “failed” the training.

Now for Ed Dames’s remarks about Mel Riley: In his post Dames further suggests "ask Mel Riley who trained him." The answer Ed apparently expects to hear is "Ed Dames." This implied claim is (essentially) true. However, like Lyn, Mel was also to some degree "committee-trained." Ed did monitor Mel on the vast majority of his CRV training sessions (over a hundred). Others involved however, were Skip Atwater, Charlene Shufelt, and (again, presenting the CRV theory lectures) myself. All of us together appear to have monitored about a dozen of Mel’s training sessions.

Now for the claims about Schnabel. When I read Ed’s post I couldn’t remember what order things had happened in, back in the mid-90s. So I went for the obvious solution – I e-mailed Jim Schnabel! Besides a gentle jab (“The dates when I visited Swann and Dames for introductions to their brands of RV were April/May and July 1994 respectively, as noted on pp 375-77 of Remote Viewers: The Secret History of America’s Psychic Spies – a book I heartily recommend to you guys. :-)” Jim responded with the following:

“Hi Paul

“I remember that I met Swann first, then spent a lot of time talking to Dames (because Swann after some initial teasers wouldn’t really open up), then went to NYC with Bob Durant for a short [12-day] version of Swann’s RV course, then after that did some Damesian RV sessions with Ed in Albuquerque. He clarified the differences between his approach and Swann’s, over a day or two, but it wasn’t meant to be a formal training course. It was more of a general introduction to the system used by the Army/DIA RV unit post-Swann. Remember I wasn’t trying to be an RVer. I was a journalist researching a book.

"’Fresh from his job at CIA’ Would you do me a favor and correct that CIA nonsense wherever you can? It’s really starting to worry me. Last year Discovery aired a documentary on crop circles, in the US and everywhere else outside of Antarctica (a friend saw it while vacationing in Vietnam), which pictured me and on voice-over described me as a CIA officer sent by the agency to research the circles!!! And it was a skeptics’ documentary! I had to get onto the Discovery legal dept. and (according to them) they prevailed on the doc maker to edit the error out before airing it again. Some error, huh — to misidentify an independent journalist as a CIA officer. Whoops!

“FYI I was a sociology graduate student at the University of Bath with two non-fiction books already published (by Penguin) when I got interested in writing about psi. And initially I was interested in the academic/sociological side. I think I gave you a paragraph or two on this for your RV newsletter last year. I had no connection to the CIA or other USG agency!

“Spread the word! Please!

“Jim”

In a subsequent e-mail Jim noted to me that the "perfect RV session" Ed referred to happened in New York the summer of 1995 when the “Real X-Files” was being shot which, Schnabel notes, “was at least a year after the period when I ‘trained’ with Swann and then Dames.” Swann was Schnabel’s monitor for the session.

So there we have it – more or less straight from the horse’s mouth. Dames participated in the training of both Riley and Buchanan, but Buchanan did not “fail” Ed’s training. Additionally, Schnabel took 12 days or so of training from Ingo _first_, then had a day or two of informal work with Dames later. Further, the “perfect” session Schnabel worked for the documentary seems more attributable to Ingo Swann than to Ed (since Schnabel had significantly-more extensive formal training with Swann, and did the session with Swann as monitor), and finally, Schnabel was not “fresh from” service in the CIA.

For the record, I don’t believe that Ed (or Lyn, for that matter) should be accused of intentionally lying about how all this unfolded — I think he believes what he says. But the facts show that one ought to be careful when making emphatic statements about things that happened way back in the past, as memories aren’t always reliable and other experiences and agendas can serve to cloud what one thinks he remembers.

I hope this all wasn’t too confusing!

Enjoy,

Paul

(Paul H. Smith)
www.rviewer.com

BTW – a modest commercial plug – I cover much more about Dames’s (and others’) interactions with the military unit and later the open RV community in my book, “Reading the Enemy’s Mind: Inside Star Gate – America’s Psychic Espionage Program.”

Paul great comments.

But I also have a taped conversation from the 80’ss whereby Jim schnabel when talking to a resercher (Armen Victorian) where he does claim to be part of a secret group with strong links to the CIA and the vatican. He doesnt say he is directly from the CIA but part of this secret group. Jim later claimed he knew he was being secretly taped and that this was a joke. These tapes were well distributed in the UK in the early ninties.

"n these conversations Schnabel describes himself as an agent working for a shadowy organisation sponsored by the British, American, German and Vatican governments, part of whose purpose is to spread confusion and false information about the crop circles phenomenon. When he later learned that the phone calls had been recorded, Schnabel rather lamely claimed that he had made up all these claims as a joke. Now the Crop Circle Connector is able to make these recordings available through RealAudio for everybody to hear and make up their own minds."

the tapes transcript is online here:

www.world-action.co.uk/disruption.html

So yes Jim has written a great book on RV – I agree with Paul here. His past participation seems a little murkier though.

daz smith

A week or so ago someone posted to the IRVAmembers e-mail group a link to Ed Dames’s answer to a post Joanie Sullivan had made about the Real X-Files documentary. I thought I’d (finally) respond to Ed’s comments about his association with Jim Schnabel and also his training of Lyn Buchanan and Mel Riley.

Ed makes several claims – 1) that Jim Schnabel was trained by him before Schnabel went on to take a “basic” training course from Ingo; 2) that Schnabel did a “perfect” session for the Real X-files documentary thanks to the training he had from Ed; 3) that Lyn Buchanan failed his (Ed Dames’s) training; and 4) (by implication) that he, Dames, trained Mel Riley. Ed also makes an off-hand comment about Jim Schnabel coming to the Dames training “fresh from the CIA.” As we shall see, all but one of these claims is mistaken. I shall respond to the Buchanan and Riley claims first, and then address the Schnabel references.

I’ll begin with the Buchanan comment. Before I do, though, to be fair to Ed, he isn’t the only one to be confused about this episode. Lyn himself gets it wrong, as well. Ed says Lyn failed the training. Lyn says Ed was never his trainer. Both are incorrect. Here is what was really the case: Lyn didn’t "fail" Ed’s training as Ed claims in this post. It wasn’t really “Ed’s training,” anyway. Dames was only one of several that worked to train Lyn. I was involved as well, as were Bill Ray, Skip Atwater, and Tom McNear, and Gene Lessman. Lyn’s training started months before Ed even came to the unit. Of the session transcripts that I have thus far found in the archives, Skip Atwater monitored Lyn on eight sessions; Bill Ray did one with Lyn; Gene Lessman did one; and I monitored on nine (besides presenting the several theory lectures).

Ed Dames was monitor on 18 of these training sessions, after being assigned to the unit (on 31 January 1986) during the tail end of Lyn’s Stage III training. Ed mostly took over from there, monitoring a small number of Buchanan’s S-3 sessions, then many (though not all) of his S-4, -5, and -6 sessions. – including Lyn’s "graduation session"on July 14, 1986 – and awarded Lyn mostly ‘+’ marks (we either got ‘+’ or ‘-‘ as evaluations on training sessions during that period).

It’s evident from the evaluation marks and verbiage in many of the remarks sections on the cover sheets – all in Dames’s handwriting – that Ed did not at the time feel that Lyn had “failed” the training.

Now for Ed Dames’s remarks about Mel Riley: In his post Dames further suggests "ask Mel Riley who trained him." The answer Ed apparently expects to hear is "Ed Dames." This implied claim is (essentially) true. However, like Lyn, Mel was also to some degree "committee-trained." Ed did monitor Mel on the vast majority of his CRV training sessions (over a hundred). Others involved however, were Skip Atwater, Charlene Shufelt, and (again, presenting the CRV theory lectures) myself. All of us together appear to have monitored about a dozen of Mel’s training sessions.

Now for the claims about Schnabel. When I read Ed’s post I couldn’t remember what order things had happened in, back in the mid-90s. So I went for the obvious solution – I e-mailed Jim Schnabel! Besides a gentle jab (“The dates when I visited Swann and Dames for introductions to their brands of RV were April/May and July 1994 respectively, as noted on pp 375-77 of Remote Viewers: The Secret History of America’s Psychic Spies – a book I heartily recommend to you guys. :-)” Jim responded with the following:

“Hi Paul

“I remember that I met Swann first, then spent a lot of time talking to Dames (because Swann after some initial teasers wouldn’t really open up), then went to NYC with Bob Durant for a short [12-day] version of Swann’s RV course, then after that did some Damesian RV sessions with Ed in Albuquerque. He clarified the differences between his approach and Swann’s, over a day or two, but it wasn’t meant to be a formal training course. It was more of a general introduction to the system used by the Army/DIA RV unit post-Swann. Remember I wasn’t trying to be an RVer. I was a journalist researching a book.

"’Fresh from his job at CIA’ Would you do me a favor and correct that CIA nonsense wherever you can? It’s really starting to worry me. Last year Discovery aired a documentary on crop circles, in the US and everywhere else outside of Antarctica (a friend saw it while vacationing in Vietnam), which pictured me and on voice-over described me as a CIA officer sent by the agency to research the circles!!! And it was a skeptics’ documentary! I had to get onto the Discovery legal dept. and (according to them) they prevailed on the doc maker to edit the error out before airing it again. Some error, huh — to misidentify an independent journalist as a CIA officer. Whoops!

“FYI I was a sociology graduate student at the University of Bath with two non-fiction books already published (by Penguin) when I got interested in writing about psi. And initially I was interested in the academic/sociological side. I think I gave you a paragraph or two on this for your RV newsletter last year. I had no connection to the CIA or other USG agency!

“Spread the word! Please!

“Jim”

In a subsequent e-mail Jim noted to me that the "perfect RV session" Ed referred to happened in New York the summer of 1995 when the “Real X-Files” was being shot which, Schnabel notes, “was at least a year after the period when I ‘trained’ with Swann and then Dames.” Swann was Schnabel’s monitor for the session.

So there we have it – more or less straight from the horse’s mouth. Dames participated in the training of both Riley and Buchanan, but Buchanan did not “fail” Ed’s training. Additionally, Schnabel took 12 days or so of training from Ingo _first_, then had a day or two of informal work with Dames later. Further, the “perfect” session Schnabel worked for the documentary seems more attributable to Ingo Swann than to Ed (since Schnabel had significantly-more extensive formal training with Swann, and did the session with Swann as monitor), and finally, Schnabel was not “fresh from” service in the CIA.

For the record, I don’t believe that Ed (or Lyn, for that matter) should be accused of intentionally lying about how all this unfolded — I think he believes what he says. But the facts show that one ought to be careful when making emphatic statements about things that happened way back in the past, as memories aren’t always reliable and other experiences and agendas can serve to cloud what one thinks he remembers.

I hope this all wasn’t too confusing!

Enjoy,

Paul (Paul H. Smith) www.rviewer.com

BTW – a modest commercial plug – I cover much more about Dames’s (and others’) interactions with the military unit and later the open RV community in my book, “Reading the Enemy’s Mind: Inside Star Gate – America’s Psychic Espionage Program.”

Sorry but another interview with Bob durannt who was trained by ingo the same time as schnabel also detailing his employemnet by the CIA.

"Other sources told me that Schnabel had worked for the CIA while in England. I didn’t raise that, it seeming to be not the sort of question a gentleman would ask of another gentleman, and I only raise it here because other parties confronted him with this and in response he freely acknowledged his employment with that "firm", though he says it was long ago and far away. I would imagine there was nothing sinister about this, just the sort of thing many temporarily expatriate Americans are asked by their country to do from time to time, which is to report on activities of other Americans that might warrant a closer look. Which of us, if asked, wouldn’t do the same?"

full article here:

www.crvmanual.com/docs/which_side_are_ya_on_jim.html

Daz :)

Paul great comments. But I also have a taped conversation from the 80’ss whereby Jim schnabel when talking to a resercher (Armen Victorian) where he does claim to be part of a secret group with strong links to the CIA and the vatican. He doesnt say he is directly from the CIA but part of this secret group. Jim later claimed he knew he was being secretly taped and that this was a joke. These tapes were well distributed in the UK in the early ninties.

"n these conversations Schnabel describes himself as an agent working for a shadowy organisation sponsored by the British, American, German and Vatican governments, part of whose purpose is to spread confusion and false information about the crop circles phenomenon. When he later learned that the phone calls had been recorded, Schnabel rather lamely claimed that he had made up all these claims as a joke. Now the Crop Circle Connector is able to make these recordings available through RealAudio for everybody to hear and make up their own minds."

the tapes transcript is online here: www.world-action.co.uk/disruption.html

So yes Jim has written a great book on RV – I agree with Paul here. His past participation seems a little murkier though.

daz smith

Daz, I have no idea (and take no position) on what connection, if any, Jim Schnabel had with the CIA. I was only reporting what Jim himself said to me. I think at the very least what Jim says is likely to be true. What real CIA employee is going to go around telling folks he knows can’t keep a secret that he "works for the CIA" in any fashion whatever? That would be crazy, and one thing I know Schnabel is not is crazy. On the other hand, given the several factually-impoverished and highly-speculative claims Armen Victorian has made in the past about the military remote viewing program, I take anything said with, by, or to him with a grain of salt! I don’t know whether it was or not, but I could easily see that what Schnabel is recorded as saying to him was intended as a joke (practical or otherwise! ;-)

There’s not much to be said about Bob Durant’s comments. Bob is excruciatingly honest and a careful observer, but he is only noting things he had heard — perhaps from the same sources you were referring to, which would make Bob’s testimony here non-corroborative — in other words, it would not further confirm Schnabel’s alleged CIA ties, and doesn’t tell us anything new one way or the other.

Enjoy,

Paul

Paul,

youre right it tell us nothing new other than the fact that, on tape which I can supply you with claim to be part of a high level disinformation program at least in disinforming on the crop circle phenomeon.

He didnt go around telling people he was CIA, he was kind of tricked into dislosing in the taped conversation. All I can say is the tapes is available – its clear if you take the time to listen that its not a joke, he is clearly taken off balance by the call and he reveals too much.

Hey if you like the guys its fine, if he told you ‘its all lies’ thats also fine, but with taped conversations and other incidents here in the UK back in the early ninties we too have an opinion of Jim.

I like the book he wrote and do feel its one of the best RV books out, but with his shady past, and his claims (on tape)I do wonder whether the history in his book is the story we are meant to read, and possibly not the entire RV story.

You say you trust him – thats fine, but I and others dont.

So lets agree to disagree on this one.

daz :)

Daz, I have no idea (and take no position) on what connection, if any, Jim Schnabel had with the CIA. I was only reporting what Jim himself said to me. I think at the very least what Jim says is likely to be true. What real CIA employee is going to go around telling folks he knows can’t keep a secret that he "works for the CIA" in any fashion whatever? That would be crazy, and one thing I know Schnabel is not is crazy. On the other hand, given the several factually-impoverished and highly-speculative claims Armen Victorian has made in the past about the military remote viewing program, I take anything said with, by, or to him with a grain of salt! I don’t know whether it was or not, but I could easily see that what Schnabel is recorded as saying to him was intended as a joke (practical or otherwise! ;-)

There’s not much to be said about Bob Durant’s comments. Bob is excruciatingly honest and a careful observer, but he is only noting things he had heard — perhaps from the same sources you were referring to, which would make Bob’s testimony here non-corroborative — in other words, it would not further confirm Schnabel’s alleged CIA ties, and doesn’t tell us anything new one way or the other.

Enjoy, Paul

Paul wrote on this list, and on the HRVG list:

"Ed says Lyn failed the training. Lyn says Ed was never his trainer. Both are incorrect. Here is what was really the case: Lyn didn’t "fail" Ed’s training as Ed claims in this post. It wasn’t really “Ed’s training,” anyway. Dames was only one of several that worked to train Lyn. I was involved as well, as were Bill Ray, Skip Atwater, and Tom McNear, and Gene Lessman. Lyn’s training started months before Ed even came to the unit. Of the session transcripts that I have thus far found in the archives, Skip Atwater monitored Lyn on eight sessions; Bill Ray did one with Lyn; Gene Lessman did one; and I monitored on nine (besides presenting the several theory lectures). "

I have repeatedly said that Ed didn’t train me. I still stand by that statement. We had a bunch of practice sessions where I was mostly tasked with un-feedbackable UFO targets. There were some sessions on regular targets, mostly at my own insistence. The fact remains, though, that these were PRACTICE targets, and no TRAINING took place. I went to the director a couple of times to complain that there was no training being done – just practice on UFO stuff. It did no good. Both Ed’s and everyone else’s failure to distinguish between practice and training was a discouragement to me then, and it is like an albatross around my neck, now. Practice is not training, and although Ed monitored me on many more practice sessions than Paul has in his records, he never once even made an attempt to introduce anything new, anything that I hadn’t already gotten from the others, or anything even slightly resembling training. I remember very clearly the day when Ed gave me the "graduation training". I took it as a ridiculous joke then, and still do. I was disgusted at the time that Ed was taking credit for training which he did not provide. Everything I learned about CRV, I learned from the rest of the crew, and mostly from watching and analyzing Skip’s work. Skip’s training was real training.

Even Paul’s quote from Jim Schnabel shows this. Ed claims that he "trained" Jim, and that it was Ed’s "training" that brought about Jim’s success. But Jim wrote to Paul:

"…..(I) went to NYC with Bob Durant for a short [12-day] version of Swann’s RV course, then after that did some Damesian RV sessions with Ed in Albuquerque. He clarified the differences between his approach and Swann’s, over a day or two, but it wasn’t meant to be a formal training course. It was more of a general introduction to the system used by the Army/DIA RV unit post-Swann. "

Bottom line – Ed makes claims about "training", when what he did in both these cases was not training, at all.

Bottom line – Jim was not trained by Ed,. he was familiarized to the differences between Ed’s method and Ingo’s, and then told that the method he (Ed) was using at the time was the one the Army/DIA RV unit used. (It wasn’t.)

Bottom line – I was not trained by Ed in training sessions – I was monitored by Ed during practice.

As for the records from which Paul is working, they are the best records we have, but they do not take into account almost half a safe full of sessions and records that Fern shredded, nor do they take into account all the sessions (both practice and training) which were just not recorded, and there were lots of them. For example, Paul says that Gene Lessman monitored me on one session. Gene monitored me on at least 30 practice sessions, both CRV and ERV, and at least 10-12 more sessions which were operational. So, while the data Paul provides as the "accurate account" is accurate as far as it goes, it is still woefully inadequate and incomplete.

Sorry for the vent, but this REALLY gets old.

We published one of Lyn’s sessions, done on a validation target, in the On Target Newsletter.

To view this session click on the HRVG LIBRARY button, then under "On Target-The RV News" go down to the April 2001 link and you can find Lyn’s session.

Aloha,

Dick

Hi guys, I have about 16 stargate session from Lyn here on my site to download or view:)

www.remoteviewed.com/remote_viewing_history_military.htm

daz

We published one of Lyn’s sessions, done on a validation target, in the On Target Newsletter.

To view this session click on the HRVG LIBRARY button, then under "On Target-The RV News" go down to the April 2001 link and you can find Lyn’s session.

Aloha,

Dick

This are direct quotes taken from Dames’ website www.learnrv.com:

The new Learn Remote Viewing DVD course is second to none. Taught by

the Remote Viewing master himself; Major Ed Dames is the only true
authority for effective RV training. In fact, most of the world’s well
known Remote Viewing instructors and professionals such as David
Morehouse, Paul Smith, Lynn Buchannan and countless others, were all
originally trained by Major Dames!

AND, IN ADDITION HE WROTE:

This is to be expected as Major Ed Dames was the one and only Director

of Operations for the U.S. Army’s top secret Remote Viewing training
program during its days of conception and optimization. Major Ed Dames
is solely responsible for making Remote Viewing into the effective
tool we use today!

This are direct quotes taken from Dames’ website www.learnrv.com:

The new Learn Remote Viewing DVD course is second to none. Taught by the Remote Viewing master himself; Major Ed Dames is the only true authority for effective RV training. In fact, most of the world’s well known Remote Viewing instructors and professionals such as David Morehouse, Paul Smith, Lynn Buchannan and countless others, were all originally trained by Major Dames!

AND, IN ADDITION HE WROTE:

This is to be expected as Major Ed Dames was the one and only Director of Operations for the U.S. Army’s top secret Remote Viewing training program during its days of conception and optimization. Major Ed Dames is solely responsible for making Remote Viewing into the effective tool we use today!

>

If u think thats funny check out this audio tape that just resurfaced in my files – its Ed dames from 1992 in a taped conversation

* Ed says Roswell ufo is a time machine

* Spent ten years (by 1992) looking at ufos with RV

* Aliens are creating a hybrid race here on earth

* Mars is extremely important to the future of man

* I was a member of the successor group to Majestic 12

* names – john alexander, hal puthoff, kit green, ingo swann, jack verona, ron pandolhpi,

* psi tech considered a national security asset, and the gov would like to own it.

22.5 mb (34 mins)

www.remoteviewed.com/remote_viewing_history_military.htm

all the best…

Daz

This are direct quotes taken from Dames’ website www.learnrv.com:

The new Learn Remote Viewing DVD course is second to none. Taught by the Remote Viewing master himself; Major Ed Dames is the only true authority for effective RV training. In fact, most of the world’s well known Remote Viewing instructors and professionals such as David Morehouse, Paul Smith, Lynn Buchannan and countless others, were all originally trained by Major Dames!

AND, IN ADDITION HE WROTE:

This is to be expected as Major Ed Dames was the one and only Director of Operations for the U.S. Army’s top secret Remote Viewing training program during its days of conception and optimization. Major Ed Dames is solely responsible for making Remote Viewing into the effective tool we use today!

>